Northoff Follow-up

I left out a few items, mainly of my own, on my last post either because they didn’t quite fit into the flow of the post or they didn’t occur to me at the time.

Consciousness Defined

Northoff defines consciousness as alignment between the world and the brain. This is brought about because the world is structured by temporal dynamics and the brain imitates these temporal dynamics in the actions of its neural circuits. Northoff starts with the world because the brain exists in the world.

What’s strikes me about this definition, when stripped of its technical jargon, is how much it agrees with what I call the commonsense definition of consciousness: the phenomenal states of being aware of the world usually accompanied by an ability to take actions in it. This certainly is what we do not have if we are in deep sleep, under anesthesia, in a coma, have fainted, or are suffering from a brain trauma, such as concussion. The questions asked of people in such states are: are they awake or are they conscious? This agrees with how Searle defines consciousness.

Consciousness in Other Organisms

Since consciousness is produced by the temporal dynamics of the brain mimicking those of the world, then presumably any organism with a brain that exhibits the scale free dynamics of networked neurons would have some level of consciousness.

The qualities and frequencies in which the brain aligns with the world, based on sensory capabilities, numbers of neurons, and complexity of brain structures, could differ remarkably across species n ways we may not be able to appreciate. The number of neurons, while perhaps not definitive, may be a useful proxy measure for level of consciousness. Number of neurons also maps to intelligence in some measures. While I don’t like to use the word “intelligence” as synonym for “level of consciousness”, I do think that level of consciousness mostly controls or determines intelligence in organisms with neural systems.

At any rate, in this argument, consciousness at some level likely arises with as few as a couple hundred to perhaps a thousand networked neurons. Some level of temporal dynamics (brain waves), I think, has been measured in insects.

Artificial Consciousness

If an artificial, non-biological creation could mimic the temporal dynamics of the world with its own internally generated temporal dynamics, we might be forced to conclude it is conscious. The created entity would likely require greater “sensory” access to the world possibly with actuators to enable movement than anything that exists today. One of the complaints about some of the AI models is that it can’t distinguish fact from fiction in what it is trained on. It has no contact or alignment with the world to verify what is and what isn’t.

What’s interesting about the human brain, however, is that it may have specialized circuits to tell us if what we are experiencing is real. There is a brain conditions called Capgras delusion, for example, that can make us think the people around us are not real. The anterior precuneus, a structure between the two hemispheres, seems to have some control over whether our individual reality feels real. So AI may need some kind of cross-check with itself to function better.

The question, of course, would be exactly what would be a minimal instantiation of the temporal dynamics. Would a lattice of silicon-based intelligent switches be sufficient? Or, is there something peculiar to calcium and potassium ions flowing in membranes, for example, that might require biology to be involved?

Thoughts on Time

We mostly think of time as either measured time or container time. In measured time, we are simply using some regular reoccurring event, for example, gear movement in a mechanical clock, as a standard for measuring some other event, for example the time from the start to finish of the 100 meter dash for a competitor. In container time, time moves at its pace and stuff happens in it. Container time is like older conception of space. In the Newtonian version, space isn’t anything but where matter exists. We know now matter bends space. Space is actively modified by matter.

What if time should be thought to be more active? The universe has matter but it also has the continual transformation of matter. Implicit in transformation is time. What was becomes something different through time. The world as we know has stuff (matter) but the stuff is always changing on short, long, and intermediate time scales. Time is active. It is stuff changing. Northoff calls this dynamic time and cites some of Lee Smolin to explain. The idea seems to be that the temporal dynamics has some creative role to play in how structures in the world come about. The same dynamics that build the world are used in the brain to create the structures that compose consciousness.

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4 Responses to Northoff Follow-up

  1. As you warned, my reading of Northoff got mired in trying to parse the writing. Not because it’s too technical, I think, but just because it seems desperately in need of heavy editing. I found his argument against triviality (which I think is my main concern), and about the distinction between alignment and representation, seemingly obfuscated and unconvincing. Not wrong ontologically (as far as I could tell), just in insisting that he’s presenting something categorically new.

    Maybe you were right and I should have started with the lighter read, but now I’m leery of putting down another $30 to find out. I might check it out later if there’s a sale.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. First Cause's avatar First Cause says:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/KpD2fJa6zo8o2MBxg/consciousness-as-a-conflationary-alliance-term

    Did you check out this link on Mikes blog? What that post accentuates is the intellectual mind trap that everyone falls prey to in attempting to define consciousness by it referencing its purpose, features, attributes and contents.

    If one is looking for a good metaphor here, the philosophy and so-called science of mind is still in the stone age. I think an incremental step in the right direction would be if the vocabulary was changed from subjective experience to a sovereign experience. It is the sovereignty of mind that has to be explained, not its purpose, features, attributes and contents.

    Personally, I’m satisfied with my own conclusions on the matter. Keep blogging my friend.

    Liked by 1 person

    • James Cross's avatar James Cross says:

      “Whom did I interview? Mostly academics I met in grad school, in cognitive science, AI, ML, and mathematics. In an ad hoc manner at academic or other intellectually-themed gatherings, whenever people talked about consciousness, I gravitated toward the conversation and tried to get someone to spend a long conversation with me to unpack what they meant”.

      Yep. That explains the results.

      However, most of the attributes and ways enumerated are not at all mutually exclusive and might be considered aspects of consciousness without any confliction.

      Bluntly, if you are in a coma, you are not conscious. If you are in deep sleep, you are not conscious. If you have ever slept, you know the difference between being awake and conscious and being unconscious.

      We shouldn’t make this out to be more or less than it is.

      Like

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